| Author | Message | ||
| Ocsurffishn
New member Username: Ocsurffishn Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2003 |
During the lightning show last night, I sat inside and hooked up my scale to my 30lb powerpro I was testing the strength of different knots, and almost all of them held up until the line snapped When I pulled so the scale registered 25lbs (a few times at 23 or 24), the line would snap about 7 inches below the knot, so it wasn't the knot slipping On 20lb PowerPro, a palomar held up until 18lbs and a clinch held to 15lbs at which point it either slipped off or started to slip Anyone else have experience with PP breaking early? Good fishin' | ||
| Coolerpup
Senior Member Username: Coolerpup Post Number: 361 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ive caught big Drum and Stripers on 20 lb Power Pro, Large toothy critters over 50 lbs on it. Nope............no problems here.  AllenC | ||
| Fishead
New member Username: Fishead Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2003 |
.....while 30# seems like strong enough line you might try 50# mostly because you can feel the line in the dark and so knot tyin is a little easier, never had 50 break and i've tested it well..... | ||
| Charlietuna
New member Username: Charlietuna Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2000 |
I agree with fishead. Go to the 50#. It casts almost as well as the 20#, and doesn't have as much wind drag as 17# mono. I have a problem with some of the lighter PP. Twice this spring, I had line breaks literally somewhere in the middle of a casted length WHILE SIMPLY REELING IN, losing 50 yards or so. I'd check the point where the break occurred, and the line looked frayed, like it had worn on the rocks (and I only used those reels in the surf). So, I inspected some lengths, and noticed the diameter varied. I pulled some out and put some gloves on, and could easily break the line. It was just spooled last mid-summer, and I contend the stuff dry rots. I know others will deny this happens, and maybe it's because I wash my reels down every time I use them. My love affair with PP is over, but new, it's still the best out there. | ||
| Warden
Senior Member Username: Warden Post Number: 664 Registered: 8-2000 |
CT, Let me offer a different scenario. You mentioned the breakoffs in another post some time back. At that time you said the breaks ocurred sometimes when you got a hit. The Pup, my son and I fished Assateague first part of June this year. That's three guys fishing PP. In two days we had fourteen bite offs between the three of us. I thought knots were coming loose when the line parted the first couple of times but then we retrieved the lost rigs on subsequent casts and we could see the knots were intact. Sometimes it looked like a clean break and other times it looked frayed as you described. No way was it bad line. Something out there was cutting the line. I fished the inlet area for three days after that. Same rigs, same line, no breaks. I can only guess at what was happening so here's my theory. PP, unlike mono, is opaque making it very visible. When a fish takes your bait, your line is bouncing around in the water sort of like a jigging action. Would this attract a strike from a toothy critter? Or perhaps it was just sharks rubbing against the line. We were catching a bunch of them on that trip. I'm not sure what was happening but I'm very confident that it had nothing to do with rotten line. Besides, you're just a newbie. Why should we consider anything you say as gospel??? ;-) | ||
| Charlietuna
Senior Member Username: Charlietuna Post Number: 1437 Registered: 7-2000 |
NEWBIE? CHECK OUT THIS POST, I'VE REGAINED MY STATURE!!! I believe that now makes me your SENIOR, even though you're 25 years older. Good theory George, and probably accurate. I couldn't believe what was happening. | ||
| Brad
Senior Member Username: Brad Post Number: 375 Registered: 10-2002 |
I heard PP lines have splices in them from the factory from another site. Someone there was complaining of lines breaking while tuna chunking. I have some reels spooled with it for bottom fishing, and have noticed lumps in the line. Some of these lines are braided, some stranded and heat fused, and some resin coated. The heat fusing scares me, but I can honestly say,I never had a problem with breakage with any of them. If I get a break off, it's not in the braid, but in the leader, or the leader get's cut by the braid. Braids are not as abraision resistant as mono, and rubbing on a sand and shell bottom like surf fishing might be a bad choice of lines. As for breaking strength, if 30# line is breaking at 25#, that's a lot of drag pressure. That's up there with using 80# tackle! When you condsider you fish tuna with 50# line, and a drag of 12-15#, that should hold most any inshore species, and most offshore. Braids will pop instantly when tested, where mono's will start to elongate during the test, then fail slowly, when seen on an Instron. That stands to reason due to the lack of stretch. While we want 100% knot strength, I don't think we'll ever get that 100% of the time, and since these lines are not IGFA rated, the control when manufacturing them is not as stringent, so there may be weak areas in the line. You may be fishing with 30# rated line that actually test at 25#...or 20#, but isn't that pretty heavy line for surf fishing? I seem to remember using 12# mono with a 25# shock leader for soaking live spot off the beach. Just trying to keep things in perspective, what kind of rod are you using that will actually take 25# of drag? How hard did you have to pull on that line to break it? That's a lot of pressure. As for casting, 20-30# is about what you'll be using for a shock leader, so it seems to be about right. Right? These lines do not rot, they are made of polyprophylene, stabilized against UV damage, and will not absorb water. The line may be bad when you buy it, but it will not go bad just sitting on the reel. I have a reel filled with 30# Iron Thread, the first braid, and it has to be many years old. I used that line this spring for spring striper trolling, and still strong as ever. I still contend that Fireline is the most consistant line on the market of the fused lines. And Spiderwire Braid the best of the lighter test for braids. For heavier lines I'll stick with Big Water Braid. I think the tighter weaves, and wax coatings make these lines hold knots better, resist abraision better, and are the most consistant in strength. I usually get four seasons out of Fireline on my freshwater outfits, reversing it after two seasons, and ditto the saltwater spinning outfits. I've never had to replace the braid/mono top shot braids. That's my opinion. | ||
| Doverpower
Senior Member Username: Doverpower Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2002 |
Is your scale calibrated? | ||
| Ocsurffishn
New member Username: Ocsurffishn Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2003 |
Calibrated.... yep... took 5lb boxes of sinkers and put them in a bag and it registered it correctly in 5lb increments up to 50lbs Brad -- I have the braid on 2 reels and mono on 4... the braid is 30lb (8lb diameter) and casts much farther than 14 or 20lb. The one I was testing was on a Silstar Baitfeeder reel, with the drag tightened all the way down, that thing won't move. In my opinion, Spiderwire is much more abraision resistant and breaks at a higher pressure than Powerpro. I generally don't use much of a shock leader, I just put the pre-made rigs on or tie my own (sometimes out of braid, but mostly mono) My biggest problem with PP is that it ties itself in knots during casts on windy days!!! I have 3 giant knots that I have to cut out before I use it again... there goes 20yds Spiderwire is what I'll stick with for braids My reel with Spiderwire spooled 4 years ago still holds it's rated 30lbs Good fishin'! | ||
| Wgl56
Senior Member Username: Wgl56 Post Number: 413 Registered: 11-2000 |
I used Power pro a few years ago and noticed the lumps in the line, when I mentioned it to some of the other fisherman they looked at me like I was nuts. Later heard they were splices. no mater what they are it was enough for me to switch back to spiderwire. If they're selling pieces of PP spliced together, I don't care how they splice it, it still is not what I want on my reels, and I'm no big game fisherman. I've never had a problem with sp[iderwire that was not my fault, Knots hold, lasts at least a season, casts as good as and it don't have lumps. | ||
| Wgl56
Senior Member Username: Wgl56 Post Number: 414 Registered: 11-2000 |
OC, seeing how your doing the stress tests how about doing the same on spiderwire? Shure would be interesting to see the results. | ||
| Coolerpup
Senior Member Username: Coolerpup Post Number: 363 Registered: 10-2002 |
Last 4 bulk spools of 20lb Power Pro Ive bought does not have any lumps, mis-colored areas etc etc. Even after my trip to AI with Warden, Ive used the same reels over and over without problems, so I know it was the toothy critters not the line. Power Pro has come a long ways and if your having trouble with it, dont rule out user error. AllenC | ||
| Sledge
New member Username: Sledge Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2003 |
i only fish spider wire .. .. both fresh and salt water never had any problems therefore have never felt the need to try any thing else .. ill stick with what has always worked for me.. | ||
| Seadawg
Senior Member Username: Seadawg Post Number: 689 Registered: 8-2000 |
Wgl56, a little over a year ago, I tested various pound tests of Cortland braid (they make most of the "super" braids for most of the companies), Cabelas Ripcord (another Cortland braid product), Fireline and Spiderwire "2000" braid, and found that they all tested pretty darn close to the line rating. I used a tensile testing machine where I used to work to do the testing, so I know it was accurate testing. And, you do need to use a knot that does not cut into itself, it will cut the break strength by 50%. I've only used these brands of lines (no powerpro yet, sorry), because I normally buy in bulk and was loading a lot of reels for my friends. Ditto with Brad's comments too. I still have the original 50# spiderwire braid on a Diawa Sealine reel that was purchased when Spiderwire first came out (probably 10 years ago now), and it STILL looks good. I did play with the spiderwire stealth this past Friday (the free spool that some of us got over the winter), and it looks good too. | ||
| Gofish
New member Username: Gofish Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2002 |
I have used Power Pro and Fireline at IRI. I will tell you that Fireline will out perform PP hands down. PP will tend to snap off and break Fireline will not! Switch to FIRELINE!!!!! | ||
| Seablast
Senior Member Username: Seablast Post Number: 347 Registered: 1-2003 |
This weekend I was drifting over a wreck. Was using 20lb power pro, a 30 lb shock leader, and 50 lb hook snap swivel. I got snaged twice. The first time we backed the boat oup and couldn't get it off. It took me about 2 minutes to get the line to break (I had full drage on a penn 965!)the the leader broke about 2 inches from the connecting knot (YES MY UNI TO UNI WORKED WELL). The second time I got snagged same situation but I had gotten lazy and not tied a leader on. The snap swivel bent open and I lost my rig that way. (This time ot took me almost 5 minutes to break off using full drag and both thumbs!!!) I've only used spider wire and power pro. I have to say that power pro has been great for me. I am amaze at its strength. | ||
| Pier_review
Junior Member Username: Pier_review Post Number: 81 Registered: 10-2002 |
If you use your equipment a lot and spend time with lots of line out in the water, I would bet that the UV stabilization has washed or worn off and that you have UV damage to the line which has caused polymer damage (unlinking). Had a tent which was made of nylon (tougher than polypropylene) which was UV treated. I used it a lot.... The rain fly got zapped by the sun over time and proceded to basically crumble. With the line on your reel, you also need to consider the salt, sun, abrasion from reel, sand, eyes on the rod (all line contact surfaces) Polypropylene is not as abrasion resistant as nylon by a long shot. This is why climbers use nylon rope to climb on. Two more things to chew on.... what do you use to wash your gear with after use? If you use detergents, these may alter the line or the coating. Also, the combination of different metals in the reel and line pickup contact surfaces made of metal and salt can produce metallic salts through a galvanic reaction. The mettaalic salts or the reaction itself might produce problems. My bet is abrasion or UV damage or the combination of factors. | ||
| Epoxymeister
Member Username: Epoxymeister Post Number: 109 Registered: 10-2002 |
Regarding the Spider Wire Stealth mentioned, I tried it on my Shimano Sedona 4000 while fishing for Northern Pike and Smallmouth in Wisconsin this Spring. The results were less than impressive. The twists and tangles I got with it were horrible (no, it was not spooled on backwards). I stripped it off and drove 40 miles to the nearest Walmart, picked up some Fireline and haven't had a problem since. Also along the same subject, I spooled one of my surf reels with Jin-Kai 15lb. test this spring. After maybe 4 trips to the beach with it I could snap it by hand with little effort. Took about 50 yards of the top- same result. The whole spool seems to have deteriorated. If you spooled with it, you better test it before THE BIG ONE does! | ||
| Ninja
Senior Member Username: Ninja Post Number: 962 Registered: 7-2000 |
Epoxy the cure for wind knots is to drive down the road and let the bail spring open! I am not kidding, just ask the folks who live on my road "there goes that boy from PA zippin down the lane with a fishin pole hangin out the window" The line will have a chance to relax and unwind and will forget the memory it obtained while on the spool. | ||
| Wgl56
Senior Member Username: Wgl56 Post Number: 418 Registered: 11-2000 |
Ninja, never heard of that for line twist, good idea, and you can tell your neighbors your trolling for imports. he,he,he | ||
| Bigwillj
New member Username: Bigwillj Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2002 |
Some folks on other boards are also pointing out problems with Fireline breaking too. Strange how so many analogies are popping up over these high dollar superlines. (Got a "File Lock" error. Sorry in advance if this posts more than once) | ||
| Dick
Senior Member Username: Dick Post Number: 1830 Registered: 5-2001 |
I've been using fireline for several years now and have had NO problems with line breaking in the 20lb. and higher tests, but I do find the 14lb. seems to break a little easy. I only have one reel spooled with 14 so far, but I do have a 1000 yd. spool, so I'll let ya know what happens. I did have one instance out on the S. jetty a few weeks ago where there were ALOT of porpoise in the area and my line just went limp twice. When I reeled in, my line had been cut or something pretty far up from the lure. I didn't feel a thing when this happened, just went limp all of a sudden. I thought it must have been a porpoise, but I'm still not sure. | ||
| Raxarsr
Junior Member Username: Raxarsr Post Number: 96 Registered: 4-2003 |
ok dick.....i'll tell you one more time............life saver candy does NOT make a good swivel............. | ||
| Newt
New member Username: Newt Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2002 |
30lb power pro with a line diameter of 8lb. is perfect for just about any inshore species. I've handled strippers over 40lbs. with this line. Even though pp is expensive, it is worth it because you can keep it on your reels for several years. The biggest reason for this is that pp has virtually no water retention. With the other factors. such as great knot strengh, castability, and good sensetivity, it's hard to argue the worth of this line. | ||
| Brad
Senior Member Username: Brad Post Number: 387 Registered: 10-2002 |
Pier Review, your analagy is incorrect about Poly lines, or poly anything else. One of Polyethelene's strong characteristics is it's resistance to UV damage. That is why it is used in the making of boat hulls, etc. When you say nylon is tougher than Poly, tougher is a selective term, and does not discribe a clinical result. Lines are tested in breaking strength, knot strength, abraision resistence, breaking strength in relation to diameter, and elongation (stretch.) Nylon stretches, so is more forgiving, and may appear to be stronger, but is not. And that is a big not. No line, none, other than maybe music wire is stronger than the poly lines. I'd have to check the data on that, but I believe it even beats steel. As for UV damage, there is so little to poly lines that you could probably spool your reels today, and leave them in the boat, and safely let your unborn children use them at the age of 10. There is nothing to wash off, no coatings, and nothing that will be desolved by chemicals. That's why they use poly to make acid containers, gas cans, and fuel tanks. As for cleaning your reels with detergents, it has no effect on the poly lines, nor will those containing bleeches. Nylon lines are coated with, and often contain, monomers for the purpose of protecting them from UV damage. Those monomers can be seen by a white powdery substance on the outside of mono lines. It's purpose is to protect the lines while in storage, or sitting on the store shelf. Once it is used once, it is gone. It does, however, not have the abraision resistence of a mono line, whether nylon or other material. The braiding, not the poly, makes this occur. The poly braids will pick where a mono line is smoother and often slides over those obsticales that catch a braided line. On the other hand, a stretchy mono line when nicked, will pop far quicker than a non-stretchy braided line due to tension on the stretched material. Just touch a stretched rubberband with a knife, verses a stretched cotton string, and see which one snaps easier. Climbers....well, which would you like to fall 50 feet and be caught by, a line that softly stretches you to a stop, or one with no stretch. Think of bungie jumping, there's no nylon lines used there. As for some analagies on Power Pro, the lumps (I have seen those also), and splicing, I do not believe in the splicing idea. There is no reason for this. First, Power Pro is in a competitive market, and it's againsts some of the biggest companies in the industry. These lines are cheap to make as far as material is concerned, but very slow and labor intensive. The equipment to braid them is also expensive and slow. First the strands have to be extruded, then braided, and in some lines, resin inpregnated. The final result is a product that takes many times the effort of mono lines, but the line is ageless and unique, so well worth the added effort and cost. I doubt that any company would risk their reputation by knowingly producing a faulty product, especially in a market that has the feedback that fihing has. I have returned spools of line to the manufacturer that were not up to snuff, and they were replaced with new line. I check every line every time I spool it, and if it isn't any good I send it back. I've never had a problem, and I think they want it back so they can examine and determine if a problem exists. I recently sent a spool of Berkley Fluoro. line back, and requested a sample of another line. They replaced the line, and gave me a spool of the line I requested a sample of. That's service. Superlines are a new product, and some will struggle with it for some time. Some will leave it, and never return, some will come back and try again, and some will never leave. The manufacturers will admit that it is not for every fishing situation, but I personally have found ways to adjust my tackle or techniques to use it nearly 100% of the time. Sometimes it's like using a cannon when you only need a BB gun, but it still works. One last thing on the subject, I have experienced all the same things that most people have, good and bad, and have learned that most of the shortcommings in these lines were my lack of attention to details. I didn't tie knots well, didn't spool the reels tight enough, used the wrong type spinning reels, or expected it to be, and perform like mono. Well, it isn't, and when I learned to think of it differently, and take more interest in getting along with it to enjoy it's advantages, it became apparent it was well worth the effort to learn how to use it properly. I was using superlines before they were superlines. When I had problems with getting cut off in the barnacles on the banks of the Chester River fishing for Bass, I made leaders of Kevlar tire cord, coated it with bees wax to keep the strands together, and pulled many of fish from the timber. Much to my dismay, many of those lunkers had whiskers! | ||
| Warden
Senior Member Username: Warden Post Number: 711 Registered: 8-2000 |
Great post Brad! Both informative and insightful.  | ||
| Matey
Senior Member Username: Matey Post Number: 494 Registered: 10-2002 |
brad, good info but man you got too much time.....we have got to get you out more. LOL barry |